We Should Be Able to Change Our Languages
Programming languages are treated as fixed, sacred artifacts, but Jimmy Miller argues we should customize them. He points out that LLMs now make it easier to understand complex code, and AI-written code benefits from macros that enforce consistency. To demonstrate, he resurrected SweetJs as Sweetener for TypeScript, showing custom operators, algebraic datatypes, and control flow in TSX. He contends that macros encode larger patterns and help tame codebases, yet macros alone are not enough—we need more flexible languages.
Macros encourage people who are not good at language design to do something equivalent to language design, using tools that don't help, and with effects that are too powerful.
- xg15
> Things have been changing drastically. There was once a point where it made sense to create suboptimal code if it meant that your team understood it better. Why? Because changes to the code provided more business value than the code itself being optimal, and if your team didn't understand it, no one could change things. But this is becoming less and less the case. If you can make code faster, better, even at the cost of readability and understandability, by you, but the AI can work with it perfectly fine, why wouldn't you?
I guess this will become the frontline of the upcoming civil war in programming-land...
- Retr0id
The main problem with macros (and similar language features) is that they turn every codebase into its own DSL. When done tastefully it makes the code more readable, but there's still an overhead for newcomers to the codebase - they need to learn your DSL before they can be productive.
LLMs may make this overhead less visible to you, but surely it's still there? I'd rather more of my tokens went towards solving the actual task at hand, vs figuring out a custom syntax (and re-learning it on every fresh context window).
- pie_flavor
Rust has been a practical experiment in macros for ten years now. I think it is safe to say the results are in: macros are great, and you just needed to have a better style of macros. Making and using something like `tokio::select!` in C-style macros is miserable, but `tokio::select!` is easy to use and understand in Rust.
- saint-evan
Hate the fact that when someone dreams up an article such as this [nasty word] where the central premise is that, '[SW engineering constraint] is no longer an issue anymore'... it's always because the solution is to turn off your brain and ask the LLM. It's almost similar to, 'because computers have gotten faster and memory's cheaper, we can write [nasty word] software' but this time it's, 'proper code architecture don't matter anyway because ain't gonna read it'.
Jesus! I am very certain, without evidence, that even LLMs have an upper bound for the shittiest, most warped code even they can understand and explain. How sad is it that we're going from 'this engineering constraint has been solved' to 'that's [LLM provider]'s problem'. There is a finite amount of context, a finite amount of signal that can be extracted from that context, and a finite amount of inferential reliability. Give the freaking chatbot a bizzare enough monstrosity and eventually the model's explanation becomes an increasingly plausible reconstruction rather than a reliable model of the program. This is the goddamned wall these damned idiots are about to run into... Taking on debt, pushing architecture in the OPPOSITE direction of human understanding AND banking on a neutral-at-best external entity to keep doing YOUR job for (essentially) free! And what's crazy is that I'm the absolute furthest thing from an Ai-hater AND I'm a 23yo JUNIOR PROGRAMMER but these sentiments are getting ridiculous asf on both […]
- tombert
At the risk of being a bit of a douchebag, it seems like nearly every tech opinion piece I read now boils down to "things used to be hard but they aren't anymore because LLMs can understand things faster than we can, so can ignore/change fundamentals!"
I didn't really find the argument convincing the first time and I don't really find it convincing now.
That said, with regards to macros, I actually do agree that the fear against them is broadly overblown. I have seen scary terrible horrifying macro soup in Clojure, but that has generally been outlier cases. Something like core.async abuses the hell out of macros, and despite that I think it very often increases readability and understanding of the language.